Hi all,
I apologise for writing in English, Dutch is not my forte! =)
I would like to ask the dentists here a question. My missus has toothache, they reckon 2 teeth are needing something like drilling through and filling/root canal.
My question is this, if you dentists hate to see people walking around with toothache why are prices so high for treatment? We have been quoted 500 euros for this treatment. While our dentists have BMW and Mercedes parked outside, we are looking at cancelling our christmas holiday to cover this cost, this is 2 weeks untouched salary for most people.
Lots of other companies can do a lot more with 500 euro, they can build you a fully working computer for example, with thousands of parts and using modern technology. 500 euro will pay a months rent for some people. 500 will feed a family of 5 for a whole month comfortable. It will keep a car on the road for 3 months. For 500 euro you can fly halfway around the world! And jets cost millions. Do I need to go on?
Yet our dentist can only drill 2 holes, squirt cleaning stuff in and fill them with light reactive polymer (maybe the most expensive part?) for the same money. Ok the PC builders have mass production on their side, but i am pretty sure no dentist here can justify 500 euro on materials to fill a few teeth. 1 hour of labour and maybe not even 100 euro on materials, including the costs of the dentists building and utility bills.
I know dentists are very highly skilled and require much training. They are entitled to a comfortable living. I dont mean to be blunt here, but it seems at least our dentists are money grabbing, greedy, heartless people.
I apologise for writing in English, Dutch is not my forte! =)
I would like to ask the dentists here a question. My missus has toothache, they reckon 2 teeth are needing something like drilling through and filling/root canal.
My question is this, if you dentists hate to see people walking around with toothache why are prices so high for treatment? We have been quoted 500 euros for this treatment. While our dentists have BMW and Mercedes parked outside, we are looking at cancelling our christmas holiday to cover this cost, this is 2 weeks untouched salary for most people.
Lots of other companies can do a lot more with 500 euro, they can build you a fully working computer for example, with thousands of parts and using modern technology. 500 euro will pay a months rent for some people. 500 will feed a family of 5 for a whole month comfortable. It will keep a car on the road for 3 months. For 500 euro you can fly halfway around the world! And jets cost millions. Do I need to go on?
Yet our dentist can only drill 2 holes, squirt cleaning stuff in and fill them with light reactive polymer (maybe the most expensive part?) for the same money. Ok the PC builders have mass production on their side, but i am pretty sure no dentist here can justify 500 euro on materials to fill a few teeth. 1 hour of labour and maybe not even 100 euro on materials, including the costs of the dentists building and utility bills.
I know dentists are very highly skilled and require much training. They are entitled to a comfortable living. I dont mean to be blunt here, but it seems at least our dentists are money grabbing, greedy, heartless people.
Re: Dental treatment a rip of?
Door een praktijk efficient te organiseren en hard te werken (veel uren maken) kan een tandarts inderdaad een 'comfortable living' bij elkaar te verdienen. Net zoals andere professionals (huisartsen, specialisten, advocaten, financiële dienstverleners) overigens. Er is geen sprake van overdreven inkomens. Genoemde tarieven leiden ook niet tot overdreven uurtarieven. Een garage of loodgieter rekent in NL ook een uurtarief van 70 euro hoor. Daarvoor vlieg ik ook naar Italie. Niet om me daar te behandelen want veel van de gebruikelijke tandartskosten zijn daar hoger als in NL :D
Het is uiteraard zo dat de tandartskosten in absolute zin vrij hoog zijn maar daar staat in het algemeen een dienstverlening op hoge standaard tegenover zoals u zelf al aangaf. In NL hebben mensen tot 22 jaar recht op deze hulp als onderdeel van de basiszorgverzekering. Ook kennen we in NL vergoeding voor kostbare implanten als mensen die voor een goedzittend kunstgebit nodig hebben.
Incidenteel komt het voor dat een patient te veel betaald, bijvoorbeeld als het tarievensysteem niet juist wordt toegepast. Mogelijk is dat bij u ook zo. Als u precies aangeeft wat er moet worden gebeuren kunnen we daar misschien nog wat van zeggen. Een normale vulling kost in NL maximaal 100 euro, meestal een stuk minder.
N.B. Ik ga er vanuit dat u wel enigszins Nederlands kunt lezen, vandaar dat ik antwoord in het Nederlands.
Re: Dental treatment a rip of?
Thanks for the reply. I can sort of understand your point of view. The other professionals you talk of are also known for high costs. Again these cannot justify their costs either, for example lawyer fees are extortionate. People use their services because they are legally obliged to, by law, therefore the lawyer can charge what they want. It just shows how commonplace the tendency to rip people off is, when the government has to step in and say, no you may not charge more than this. People are obliged to use dentists, they are obliged by biology, this has a powerful effect on you decision as to whether or not you visit a dentist.
Garages, particularly main dealer garages are also extortionate. Their prices do not at all reflect the costs of the repair. If you go to a main dealership you may pay 400 euro for part 'X', and go to a private shop, and buy the same component made in the SAME factory, by the SAME machines, with a different logo painted on it, for only 50 euro. You cannot liken a dentist to a garage, in the case of the garage, it is an unskilled suit wearing snob charging you in some cases 200eur an hour, and a skilled man doing the work for 10eur an hour, at least with a dentist I feel the guy deserves to be paid.
To be honest, your argument is a little shallow. You cannot say that prices are ok, because the government actually had to step in and limit them, and elsewhere prices are higher. To organise an office, manpower is the main expense, and for 500 euro an hour you could probably have 15 - 20 receptionists/administrative receptionists. I know how much dental equipment costs to make, I used to work in a company that designed and built equipment for hospitals and dental clinics.
Could you be so kind as to provide a price breakdown, of materials and of course, would you care to say how much profit is made on a filling? 10%, 25%, 75%? I think a dentist is only getting away with such costs due to people needing them, just like banks, lawyers, etc. I would never deny you that you deserve a comfortable living, but you already have so much more than the average person, do you really want to start making people choose between 24 hour agony or not feeding their children. Most people can afford these prices occasionally, but it is not easy and the repercussions last for months.
Please dont take this as a personal attack, this is just a general attack on the costs, in general I find medical professionals are much more deserving and work to much higher standards than other so called professionals.
Re: Dental treatment a rip of?
U komt uit engeland neem ik voor het gemak even aan, vergelijk eens met de tarieven daar. De tarieven in NL behoren tot de laagste in europa nota bene, en nog is het niet goed... Vergelijk met engeland met het particuliere stelsel dan wel, want de national healthcare....daar wilt u niet naar toe toch?
Verder heb ik weinig behoefte allemaal bedrijfsgegevens zoals winst , omzet, kosten op tafel te leggen, maar afhankelijk van diverse factoren ligt het rendement zo tussen 25-50% denk ik. Dus van 100,= omzet blijft een 25-50 over, waar dan nog vanaf moet: premie arbeidsongeschiktheid, pensioenopbouw (moeten tandartsen zelf regelen), belastingen, premies diversen prive zoals ook ziektekosten etc etc.
Dat u het veel geld vind geloof ik, maar daarvoor zijn er verzekeringen bedacht om dit soort plotselinge kosten op te vangen. Heeft men die niet vind ik eigen keuze, de gevolgen daarvan ook, die niet opgelost hoeven te worden door degeen die het herstelwerk moet doen, waarvan wel verwacht word dat ie goed werk levert en goede materialen gebruikt, want dat verwacht u uiteraard wel. Men moet ophouden de zorgsector uit te kleden, en al helemaal op basis van verkeerde argumenten....